diff --git a/llarp/link/link_manager.cpp b/llarp/link/link_manager.cpp
index 926c1ceac..dda9a666f 100644
--- a/llarp/link/link_manager.cpp
+++ b/llarp/link/link_manager.cpp
@@ -434,48 +434,9 @@ namespace llarp
 
   void
   LinkManager::fetch_rcs(
-      const RouterID& source, rc_time since, const std::vector<RouterID>& explicit_ids)
+      const RouterID& source, std::string payload, std::function<void(oxen::quic::message m)> func)
   {
-    send_control_message(
-        source,
-        "fetch_rcs",
-        RCFetchMessage::serialize(since, explicit_ids),
-        [this, source = source](oxen::quic::message m) {
-          if (m.timed_out)
-          {
-            // TODO: keep track of this failure for relay quality metrics?
-            log::info(link_cat, "RC Fetch to {} timed out", source);
-            return;
-          }
-          try
-          {
-            oxenc::bt_dict_consumer btdc{m.body()};
-            if (not m)
-            {
-              auto reason = btdc.require<std::string_view>(messages::STATUS_KEY);
-              log::info(link_cat, "RC Fetch to {} returned error: {}", source, reason);
-              return;
-            }
-
-            auto btlc = btdc.require<oxenc::bt_list_consumer>("rcs"sv);
-            auto timestamp = rc_time{std::chrono::seconds{btdc.require<int64_t>("time"sv)}};
-
-            std::vector<RemoteRC> rcs;
-
-            while (not btlc.is_finished())
-            {
-              rcs.emplace_back(btlc.consume_dict_consumer());
-            }
-
-            node_db->ingest_rcs(source, std::move(rcs), timestamp);
-          }
-          catch (const std::exception& e)
-          {
-            // TODO: Inform NodeDB of failure (perhaps just a call to rotate_rc_source())
-            log::info(link_cat, "Failed to parse RC Fetch response from {}: {}", source, e.what());
-            return;
-          }
-        });
+    send_control_message(source, "fetch_rcs", std::move(payload), std::move(func));
   }
 
   void
@@ -547,69 +508,16 @@ namespace llarp
   }
 
   void
-  LinkManager::fetch_router_ids(const RouterID& source, std::function<void(oxen::quic::message m)> func)
+  LinkManager::fetch_router_ids(
+      const RouterID& via, std::string payload, std::function<void(oxen::quic::message m)> func)
   {
     if (ep.conns.empty())
     {
       log::debug(link_cat, "Not attempting to fetch Router IDs: not connected to any relays.");
       return;
     }
-    // TODO: randomize?  Also, keep track of successful responses and drop this edge
-    //       if not many come back successfully.
-    RouterID edge = ep.conns.begin()->first;
-    send_control_message(
-        edge,
-        "fetch_router_ids"s,
-        RouterIDFetch::serialize(source),
-        (func) ? std::move(func) :
-        [this, source = source, edge = std::move(edge)](oxen::quic::message m) {
-          if (not m)
-          {
-            log::info(
-                link_cat,
-                "Error fetching RouterIDs from source \"{}\" via edge \"{}\"",
-                source,
-                edge);
-            node_db->ingest_router_ids(edge);  // empty response == failure
-            return;
-          }
-
-          try
-          {
-            oxenc::bt_dict_consumer btdc{m.body()};
-
-            btdc.required("routers");
-            auto router_id_strings = btdc.consume_list<std::vector<ustring>>();
-
-            btdc.require_signature("signature", [&edge](ustring_view msg, ustring_view sig) {
-              if (sig.size() != 64)
-                throw std::runtime_error{"Invalid signature: not 64 bytes"};
-              if (not crypto::verify(edge, msg, sig))
-                throw std::runtime_error{
-                    "Failed to verify signature for fetch RouterIDs response."};
-            });
-
-            std::vector<RouterID> router_ids;
 
-            for (const auto& s : router_id_strings)
-            {
-              if (s.size() != RouterID::SIZE)
-              {
-                log::warning(link_cat, "Got bad RouterID from edge \"{}\".", edge);
-                return;
-              }
-              router_ids.emplace_back(s.data());
-            }
-
-            node_db->ingest_router_ids(edge, std::move(router_ids));
-            return;
-          }
-          catch (const std::exception& e)
-          {
-            log::info(link_cat, "Error handling fetch RouterIDs response: {}", e.what());
-          }
-          node_db->ingest_router_ids(edge);  // empty response == failure
-        });
+    send_control_message(via, "fetch_router_ids"s, std::move(payload), std::move(func));
   }
 
   void
diff --git a/llarp/link/link_manager.hpp b/llarp/link/link_manager.hpp
index cfa4b3c6d..e51f892dd 100644
--- a/llarp/link/link_manager.hpp
+++ b/llarp/link/link_manager.hpp
@@ -227,13 +227,17 @@ namespace llarp
     handle_gossip_rc(oxen::quic::message m);
 
     void
-    fetch_rcs(const RouterID& source, rc_time since, const std::vector<RouterID>& explicit_ids);
+    fetch_rcs(
+        const RouterID& source,
+        std::string payload,
+        std::function<void(oxen::quic::message m)> func);
 
     void
     handle_fetch_rcs(oxen::quic::message m);
 
     void
-    fetch_router_ids(const RouterID& source, std::function<void(oxen::quic::message m)> func = nullptr);
+    fetch_router_ids(
+        const RouterID& via, std::string payload, std::function<void(oxen::quic::message m)> func);
 
     void
     handle_fetch_router_ids(oxen::quic::message m);
diff --git a/llarp/nodedb.cpp b/llarp/nodedb.cpp
index 15159f7d6..31834ed50 100644
--- a/llarp/nodedb.cpp
+++ b/llarp/nodedb.cpp
@@ -2,6 +2,8 @@
 
 #include "crypto/types.hpp"
 #include "dht/kademlia.hpp"
+#include "messages/rc.hpp"
+#include "messages/router_id.hpp"
 #include "router_contact.hpp"
 #include "util/time.hpp"
 
@@ -117,7 +119,7 @@ namespace llarp
   bool
   NodeDB::rotate_startup_rc_source()
   {
-    if (client_known_routers.size() < 13)
+    if (active_client_routers.size() < 13)
     {
       // do something here
       return false;
@@ -126,7 +128,7 @@ namespace llarp
     RouterID temp = rc_fetch_source;
 
     while (temp == rc_fetch_source)
-      std::sample(client_known_routers.begin(), client_known_routers.end(), &temp, 1, csrng);
+      std::sample(active_client_routers.begin(), active_client_routers.end(), &temp, 1, csrng);
 
     rc_fetch_source = std::move(temp);
     return true;
@@ -145,11 +147,12 @@ namespace llarp
       throw std::runtime_error{"Called rotate_rc_source with no connections, does not make sense!"};
 
     // We should not be in this function if client_known_routers isn't populated
-    if (client_known_routers.size() <= 1)
+    if (active_client_routers.size() <= 1)
       throw std::runtime_error{"Cannot rotate RC source without RC source(s) to rotate to!"};
 
     RemoteRC new_source{};
     _router.link_manager().get_random_connected(new_source);
+
     if (conn_count == 1)
     {
       // if we only have one connection, it must be current rc fetch source
@@ -171,7 +174,7 @@ namespace llarp
 
       while (r == rc_fetch_source)
       {
-        std::sample(client_known_routers.begin(), client_known_routers.end(), &r, 1, csrng);
+        std::sample(active_client_routers.begin(), active_client_routers.end(), &r, 1, csrng);
       }
       rc_fetch_source = std::move(r);
       return;
@@ -187,7 +190,7 @@ namespace llarp
 
   // TODO: trust model
   void
-  NodeDB::ingest_rcs(RouterID source, std::vector<RemoteRC> rcs, rc_time timestamp)
+  NodeDB::store_fetched_rcs(RouterID source, std::vector<RemoteRC> rcs, rc_time timestamp)
   {
     (void)source;
 
@@ -205,85 +208,35 @@ namespace llarp
     last_rc_update_relay_timestamp = timestamp;
   }
 
-  // TODO: trust model
   void
-  NodeDB::ingest_router_ids(RouterID source, std::vector<RouterID> ids)
+  NodeDB::ingest_rid_fetch_responses(const RemoteRC& source, std::vector<RouterID> ids)
   {
-    router_id_fetch_responses[source] = std::move(ids);
+    const auto& rid = source.router_id();
 
-    router_id_response_count++;
-    if (router_id_response_count == router_id_fetch_sources.size())
-    {
-      // TODO: reconcile all the responses, for now just insert all
-      for (const auto& [rid, responses] : router_id_fetch_responses)
-      {
-        // TODO: empty == failure, handle that case
-        for (const auto& response : responses)
-        {
-          client_known_routers.insert(std::move(response));
-        }
-      }
-      router_id_fetch_in_progress = false;
-    }
+    router_id_fetch_responses[rid] = std::move(ids);
   }
 
-  void
-  NodeDB::fetch_initial()
+  bool
+  NodeDB::process_fetched_rids()
   {
-    int num_failures = 0;
-
-    [[maybe_unused]]
-    bool use_bootstrap = false;
-    
-    RouterID fetch_src;
-
-    // NodeDB::load_from_disk is called in Router::Run before any calls to Router::Tick are
-    // made, which trigger this function call. As a result, client_known_routers should be
-    // populated (if there was anything to populate it with)
-    auto num_known = client_known_routers.size();
-
-    if (num_known >= MIN_ACTIVE_RIDS)
+    for (const auto& [rid, responses] : router_id_fetch_responses)
     {
-      std::sample(client_known_routers.begin(), client_known_routers.end(), &fetch_src, 1, csrng);
-    }
-    else
-    {
-      // DEFAULT TO BOOTSTRAP ROUTERS HERE
-      use_bootstrap = true;
-      log::debug(
-          logcat,
-          "Insufficient known active RID's to fetch ({}/{}); defaulting to bootstrap",
-          num_known,
-          MIN_ACTIVE_RIDS);
-      
-      assert(not bootstraps.empty());
-      fetch_src = bootstraps.begin()->first;
-    }
-
-    while (num_failures < MAX_FETCH_ATTEMPTS)
-    {
-      
-
-
+      // TODO: empty == failure, handle that case
+      for (const auto& response : responses)
+      {
+        active_client_routers.insert(std::move(response));
+      }
     }
+    router_id_fetch_in_progress = false;
 
-    router_id_fetch_in_progress = true;
-    router_id_response_count = 0;
-    router_id_fetch_responses.clear();
-  }
-
-  bool
-  NodeDB::fetch_initial_rcs(const RouterID& src)
-  {
-    (void)src;
     return true;
   }
 
   void
-  NodeDB::fetch_rcs()
+  NodeDB::fetch_rcs(int n_fails, bool initial)
   {
+    int num_failures = n_fails;
     std::vector<RouterID> needed;
-
     const auto now = time_point_now();
 
     for (const auto& [rid, rc] : known_rcs)
@@ -292,15 +245,84 @@ namespace llarp
         needed.push_back(rid);
     }
 
-    _router.link_manager().fetch_rcs(
-        rc_fetch_source, last_rc_update_relay_timestamp, std::move(needed));
+    RouterID src = (initial)
+        ? *std::next(active_client_routers.begin(), csrng() % active_client_routers.size())
+        : rc_fetch_source;
+
+    while (num_failures < MAX_FETCH_ATTEMPTS)
+    {
+      auto success = std::make_shared<std::promise<bool>>();
+      auto f = success->get_future();
+
+      _router.link_manager().fetch_rcs(
+          src,
+          RCFetchMessage::serialize(last_rc_update_relay_timestamp, needed),
+          [this, src, p = std::move(success)](oxen::quic::message m) mutable {
+            if (m.timed_out)
+            {
+              log::info(logcat, "RC fetch to {} timed out", src);
+              p->set_value(false);
+              return;
+            }
+            try
+            {
+              oxenc::bt_dict_consumer btdc{m.body()};
+              if (not m)
+              {
+                auto reason = btdc.require<std::string_view>(messages::STATUS_KEY);
+                log::info(logcat, "RC fetch to {} returned error: {}", src, reason);
+                p->set_value(false);
+                return;
+              }
+
+              auto btlc = btdc.require<oxenc::bt_list_consumer>("rcs"sv);
+              auto timestamp = rc_time{std::chrono::seconds{btdc.require<int64_t>("time"sv)}};
+
+              std::vector<RemoteRC> rcs;
+
+              while (not btlc.is_finished())
+              {
+                rcs.emplace_back(btlc.consume_dict_consumer());
+              }
+
+              store_fetched_rcs(src, std::move(rcs), timestamp);
+              p->set_value(true);
+            }
+            catch (const std::exception& e)
+            {
+              log::info(logcat, "Failed to parse RC fetch response from {}: {}", src, e.what());
+              p->set_value(false);
+              return;
+            }
+          });
+
+      if (f.get())
+      {
+        log::debug(logcat, "Successfully fetched RC's from {}", src);
+        rc_fetch_source = src;
+        assert(_router.link_manager().have_connection_to(src));
+        break;
+      }
+
+      ++num_failures;
+      log::debug(
+          logcat,
+          "Unable to fetch RC's from {}; rotating RC source ({}/{} attempts)",
+          src,
+          num_failures,
+          MAX_FETCH_ATTEMPTS);
+
+      src = (initial)
+          ? *std::next(active_client_routers.begin(), csrng() % active_client_routers.size())
+          : std::next(known_rcs.begin(), csrng() % known_rcs.size())->first;
+    }
   }
 
   void
-  NodeDB::fetch_router_ids()
+  NodeDB::fetch_router_ids(int n_fails, bool initial)
   {
-    if (router_id_fetch_in_progress)
-      return;
+    assert(not router_id_fetch_in_progress);
+    int num_failures = n_fails;
 
     if (router_id_fetch_sources.empty())
       select_router_id_sources();
@@ -313,19 +335,140 @@ namespace llarp
     }
 
     router_id_fetch_in_progress = true;
-    router_id_response_count = 0;
     router_id_fetch_responses.clear();
 
-    for (const auto& rid : router_id_fetch_sources)
-      _router.link_manager().fetch_router_ids(rid);
+    RouterID src = (initial)
+        ? *std::next(active_client_routers.begin(), csrng() % active_client_routers.size())
+        : rc_fetch_source;
+
+    std::unordered_set<RouterID> fails;
+
+    while (num_failures < MAX_FETCH_ATTEMPTS)
+    {
+      RemoteRC& src_rc = known_rcs[src];
+      auto success = std::make_shared<std::promise<int>>();
+      auto f = success->get_future();
+      fails.clear();
+
+      for (const auto& target : router_id_fetch_sources)
+      {
+        _router.link_manager().fetch_router_ids(
+            src,
+            RouterIDFetch::serialize(target),
+            [this, src, src_rc, target, p = std::move(success)](oxen::quic::message m) mutable {
+              if (not m)
+              {
+                log::info(link_cat, "RID fetch from {} via {} timed out", src, target);
+
+                ingest_rid_fetch_responses(src_rc);
+                p->set_value(-1);
+                return;
+              }
+
+              try
+              {
+                oxenc::bt_dict_consumer btdc{m.body()};
+
+                btdc.required("routers");
+                auto router_id_strings = btdc.consume_list<std::vector<ustring>>();
+
+                btdc.require_signature("signature", [&src](ustring_view msg, ustring_view sig) {
+                  if (sig.size() != 64)
+                    throw std::runtime_error{"Invalid signature: not 64 bytes"};
+                  if (not crypto::verify(src, msg, sig))
+                    throw std::runtime_error{
+                        "Failed to verify signature for fetch RouterIDs response."};
+                });
+
+                std::vector<RouterID> router_ids;
+
+                for (const auto& s : router_id_strings)
+                {
+                  if (s.size() != RouterID::SIZE)
+                  {
+                    log::warning(
+                        link_cat, "RID fetch from {} via {} returned bad RouterID", target, src);
+                    p->set_value(0);
+                    return;
+                  }
+
+                  router_ids.emplace_back(s.data());
+                }
+
+                ingest_rid_fetch_responses(src_rc, std::move(router_ids));
+                return;
+              }
+              catch (const std::exception& e)
+              {
+                log::info(link_cat, "Error handling fetch RouterIDs response: {}", e.what());
+                p->set_value(0);
+              }
+
+              ingest_rid_fetch_responses(src_rc);  // empty response == failure
+            });
+
+        switch (f.get())
+        {
+          case 1:
+            log::debug(logcat, "Successfully fetched RID's from {} via {}", target, src);
+            continue;
+          case 0:
+            // RC node relayed our fetch routerID request, but the request failed at the target
+            log::debug(logcat, "Unsuccessfully fetched RID's from {} via {}", target, src);
+            fails.insert(target);
+            continue;
+          default:
+            // RC node failed to relay our routerID request; re-select RC node and continue
+            log::debug(logcat, "RC source {} failed to mediate RID fetching from {}", src, target);
+            src = (initial)
+                ? *std::next(active_client_routers.begin(), csrng() % active_client_routers.size())
+                : std::next(known_rcs.begin(), csrng() % known_rcs.size())->first;
+            ++num_failures;
+            fetch_rcs(num_failures);
+            continue;
+        }
+      }
+
+      auto n_fails = fails.size();
+
+      if (n_fails <= MAX_RID_ERRORS)
+      {
+        log::debug(
+            logcat,
+            "RID fetching was successful ({}/{} acceptable errors)",
+            fails.size(),
+            MAX_RID_ERRORS);
+        rc_fetch_source = src;
+        assert(_router.link_manager().have_connection_to(src));
+
+        // this is where the trust model will do verification based on the similarity of the sets
+        if (process_fetched_rids())
+        {
+          log::debug(logcat, "Accumulated RID's accepted by trust model");
+          return;
+        }
+
+        log::debug(
+            logcat, "Accumulated RID's rejected by trust model, reselecting all RID sources...");
+        select_router_id_sources(router_id_fetch_sources);
+        ++num_failures;
+        continue;
+      }
+
+      // we had 4 or more failed requests, so we will need to rotate our rid sources
+      log::debug(
+          logcat, "RID fetching found {} failures; reselecting failed RID sources...", n_fails);
+      ++num_failures;
+      select_router_id_sources(fails);
+    }
   }
 
   void
   NodeDB::select_router_id_sources(std::unordered_set<RouterID> excluded)
   {
-    // TODO: bootstrapping should be finished before this is called, so this
-    //       shouldn't happen; need to make sure that's the case.
-    if (client_known_routers.empty())
+    // bootstrapping should be finished before this is called, so this
+    // shouldn't happen; need to make sure that's the case.
+    if (active_client_routers.empty())
       return;
 
     // keep using any we've been using, but remove `excluded` ones
@@ -333,9 +476,9 @@ namespace llarp
       router_id_fetch_sources.erase(r);
 
     // only know so many routers, so no need to randomize
-    if (client_known_routers.size() <= (ROUTER_ID_SOURCE_COUNT + excluded.size()))
+    if (active_client_routers.size() <= (ROUTER_ID_SOURCE_COUNT + excluded.size()))
     {
-      for (const auto& r : client_known_routers)
+      for (const auto& r : active_client_routers)
       {
         if (excluded.count(r))
           continue;
@@ -347,7 +490,7 @@ namespace llarp
     while (router_id_fetch_sources.size() < ROUTER_ID_SOURCE_COUNT)
     {
       RouterID r;
-      std::sample(client_known_routers.begin(), client_known_routers.end(), &r, 1, csrng);
+      std::sample(active_client_routers.begin(), active_client_routers.end(), &r, 1, csrng);
       if (excluded.count(r) == 0)
         router_id_fetch_sources.insert(r);
     }
@@ -457,7 +600,7 @@ namespace llarp
         // TODO: the list of relays should be maintained and stored separately from
         // the RCs, as we keep older RCs around in case we go offline and need to
         // bootstrap, but they shouldn't be in the "good relays" list.
-        client_known_routers.insert(rid);
+        active_client_routers.insert(rid);
 
         return true;
       });
diff --git a/llarp/nodedb.hpp b/llarp/nodedb.hpp
index fc396f4ed..8b6b540dd 100644
--- a/llarp/nodedb.hpp
+++ b/llarp/nodedb.hpp
@@ -22,7 +22,10 @@ namespace llarp
 {
   struct Router;
 
+  inline constexpr size_t ROUTER_ID_SOURCE_COUNT{12};
+  inline constexpr size_t MIN_RID_FETCHES{8};
   inline constexpr size_t MIN_ACTIVE_RIDS{24};
+  inline constexpr size_t MAX_RID_ERRORS{ROUTER_ID_SOURCE_COUNT - MIN_RID_FETCHES};
   inline constexpr int MAX_FETCH_ATTEMPTS{10};
 
   class NodeDB
@@ -57,23 +60,20 @@ namespace llarp
     std::unordered_map<RouterID, rc_time> last_rc_update_times;
 
     // Client list of active RouterID's
-    std::unordered_set<RouterID> client_known_routers;
+    std::unordered_set<RouterID> active_client_routers;
 
     // only ever use to specific edges as path first-hops
     std::unordered_set<RouterID> pinned_edges;
 
-    // rc update info
+    // rc update info: we only set this upon a SUCCESSFUL fetching
     RouterID rc_fetch_source;
 
     rc_time last_rc_update_relay_timestamp;
 
-    static constexpr auto ROUTER_ID_SOURCE_COUNT = 12;
-
     std::unordered_set<RouterID> router_id_fetch_sources;
 
-    std::unordered_map<RouterID, std::vector<RouterID>> router_id_fetch_responses;
     // process responses once all are received (or failed/timed out)
-    size_t router_id_response_count{0};
+    std::unordered_map<RouterID, std::vector<RouterID>> router_id_fetch_responses;
     bool router_id_fetch_in_progress{false};
 
     bool
@@ -136,22 +136,22 @@ namespace llarp
     rotate_startup_rc_source();
 
     void
-    ingest_rcs(RouterID source, std::vector<RemoteRC> rcs, rc_time timestamp);
+    store_fetched_rcs(RouterID source, std::vector<RemoteRC> rcs, rc_time timestamp);
 
     void
-    ingest_router_ids(RouterID source, std::vector<RouterID> ids = {});
+    ingest_rid_fetch_responses(const RemoteRC& source, std::vector<RouterID> ids = {});
 
-    void
-    fetch_initial();
+    bool
+    process_fetched_rids();
 
     bool
     fetch_initial_rcs(const RouterID& src);
 
     void
-    fetch_rcs();
+    fetch_rcs(int n_fails = 0, bool initial = false);
 
     void
-    fetch_router_ids();
+    fetch_router_ids(int n_fails = 0, bool initial = false);
 
     void
     select_router_id_sources(std::unordered_set<RouterID> excluded = {});
diff --git a/llarp/router/router.cpp b/llarp/router/router.cpp
index da98cf31b..6a50d2f7d 100644
--- a/llarp/router/router.cpp
+++ b/llarp/router/router.cpp
@@ -851,23 +851,28 @@ namespace llarp
     }
     else
     {
+      int num_failures = 0;
+
       if (needs_initial_fetch)
       {
-        node_db()->fetch_initial();
+        node_db()->fetch_rcs(num_failures, true);
+        last_rc_fetch = now_timepoint;
+        node_db()->fetch_router_ids(num_failures, true);
+        last_routerid_fetch = now_timepoint;
       }
       else
       {
         // (client-only) periodically fetch updated RCs
         if (now_timepoint - last_rc_fetch > RC_UPDATE_INTERVAL)
         {
-          node_db()->fetch_rcs();
+          node_db()->fetch_rcs(num_failures);
           last_rc_fetch = now_timepoint;
         }
 
         // (client-only) periodically fetch updated RouterID list
         if (now_timepoint - last_routerid_fetch > ROUTERID_UPDATE_INTERVAL)
         {
-          node_db()->fetch_router_ids();
+          node_db()->fetch_router_ids(num_failures);
           last_routerid_fetch = now_timepoint;
         }
       }